Interview with James Kasmarek
Transcript of an Interview with James Kasmarek by Brian Kevin in May of 2004.
James Kasmarek
Tell me about how you first came to be interested in philosophy…how it first kind of caught your eye?
Kasmarek: While doing my undergrad work at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point, I had a philosophy professor named Jeffrey Olen. He made a great impression on me. Olen was just so passionate about philosophy and he was bragging about his new textbook, Persons and Their World. Of course, I bought the book and I have used it throughout my teaching career. And it led me to take a few other classes in philosophy along the way…as an undergraduate.
How did you start the philosophy course at your high school?
Kasmarek: In the fall of 1997, I was taking a 200-level philosophy class at the University of Eau Claire and while we were learning about the Pre-Socratics, it occurred to me that this material could be taught at the high school level. And that’s what got the ball rolling. It really began as a shot in the dark. I went to the social studies department and asked if we could offer it as an elective. None of my department members had a problem with it, so we put in the course booklet and we had 90 kids sign up at scheduling. Scheduling takes place in the middle of the school year, so I spent the spring and the entire summer trying to put together a curriculum. When I started looking for materials that would be suitable for high school students I couldn’t find any. So I had to create all my own lessons, which led me to think, “There isn’t any high school material, is this because nobody’s ever tried? Or is this because there isn’t a need for it?” I went with the former, and decided that nobody’s ever tried. That’s what kind of got me going and it eventually ended up with two teacher resource textbooks.
What role does the local University play in the course?
Kasmarek: I have been fortunate to have a great working relationship with our local university philosophy and religious studies department. Since the beginning, we have worked together to develop the curriculum and create an intern program where philosophy majors and minors serve as interns. To explain, they’re not student teachers, but they’ll come in and help with small group discussions and make special presentations - they’ve just added a lot to the class. The first year I didn’t have them, but the next year I did and it was very helpful. It’s just been a real win-win situation and I’ve been blessed with some great interns.
Compare your course to a university-level philosophy course.
Kasmarek: One of the things that I’ve tried to do is to make this class a hands-on experience of philosophy. There’s lots of discussion, there’s lots of times for students to evaluate opinions of others, as well as look at their own opinions—usually in the context of a philosophical topic. For example, we might be discussing John Stuart Mill and his ideas of open-mindedness, and then we conduct a debate on different ideas and we practice being open-minded. I do suppose there might be more rigors in a university course in terms of the depth of a particular philosophy or philosopher. But I do a lot of performance and project-based-assessment. I evaluate comprehension through skits, dialogue writing, posters, collages, performances, and presentations. Anything I can do to get the students actively involved and have fun with it. There’s very little of what you might call ‘sit and spit,’ where I’m spewing forth pearls of wisdom and the students are sitting there absorbing it like little sponges. You know, kids want to be actively involved and philosophical topics do provide a venue for that. One advantage high school has over the university is contact time. We meet everyday and we have the luxury of going at a slower pace.
How did the students respond to the course?
Kasmarek: Once I started teaching the material, I realized that was the right curriculum for kids at this age. Teenagers, by nature, question. And if you don’t allow them to question, then you’re saying that questioning has no part of learning. And we certainly don’t want that to happen. When I first proposed the course, I was thinking it would be a great college prep course, but once I got in to the class I realized that philosophy is for everyone. And it’s that mix of kids that makes the class go. Socially, economically, interest-wise—the more diversity you can have, the better the class would be. Over the last six years, my best classes were the ones where we’ve had kids with all kinds of interests and all kinds of opinions. Since the fall of 1998, our high school has had pretty consistent philosophy class enrollment—usually three to four semesters per year. One year we peaked at five semesters. So there is a kind of ebb and flow, I mean, it is an elective. Since every class has 25-30 kids, you’re talking about 90 to 100 kids every year that take philosophy. So overall, it has proven to be very popular with the students.
What are some of the challenges of teaching high school philosophy?
Kasmarek: Anybody that studies philosophy and understands philosophy will tell you that it’s very difficult to be in total command of every area. High school students expect you to be in total command, that was real difficult trying to explain to them that I don’t know everything. I’m learning some things right along with you. Now that I have been teaching philosophy I feel much more comfortable fielding, and in some cases not fielding, questions from the students. But they never cease to amaze me at some of their questions and responses.
What are some of the educational benefits for high school students?
Kasmarek: I think learning how to recognize a good argument, how to make an argument, and how to articulate your beliefs are all skills that are natural attributes of a philosophy curriculum. I mean, if you’re talking about a way to make a democracy stronger—this is it. We want better citizens - citizens who are interested and asking the right questions. Doesn’t mean you’re a cynic, doesn’t mean you’re a liberal, and doesn’t mean you’re a conservative - you just know how to think. What employer wouldn’t want someone who is able to think, recognize good and bad arguments, and articulate their ideas whatever those ideas might be? How important is that? These are very important skills. The umbrella word is ‘critical thinking.’ And that’s what philosophy is. I mean, that is the content. Most students will tell me how the philosophy class has helped them with other high school courses. A lot of the topics we cover in class are found in English, Psychology, Mathematics, Economics, Civics, and History courses. The students have come up with some interesting parallels of topics they have discussed in other courses. And then the students who have gone on to college have come back after having taken university level courses and have told how they were much better prepared to handle the pace and topics.
Describe some of the classroom discussions in your philosophy class.
Kasmarek: Essentially, great classroom discussions begin by asking great questions. I really think that’s the key. For example, I will ask students the following: “Explain the number four?” “What does ‘nothing’ look like?” And I do not put those down as just ‘brainteasers.’ I think you’re also talking about another important element of a philosophy curriculum and a curriculum based or steeped in philosophy is that you’re teaching creative thinking skills. You know - how to think on your feet and how to be creative in your thinking and in your arguments.
Tell me a little bit about how the first textbook came into being?
Kasmarek: After creating the lessons for the first semester, I put them together in a rough manuscript and sent it to the Center for Learning, which is an educational publishing outfit out of Ohio. Throughout my teaching career I have used a lot of their history materials. I like the fact that the lessons are set up individually to supplement current curriculum or a teacher could use them collectively as a curriculum guide. I used their format to model my book for other teachers, so they could do several things - either they could teach it as an entire course on its own, or they can pick and choose which lessons they wanted to use. And if you talk to anybody that is interested in philosophy you will find out that everybody has his or her own opinion about what philosophy is, and what should be taught. And that’s great. You know, that’s the beauty of philosophy. But in this case I wanted to give everybody the opportunity - you know, the tools - whether it was a structured curriculum that already existed and you might find a lesson or two that would add to what the teacher was already doing or it could be used to create a philosophy course at a high school level.
And the second textbook?
Kasmarek: The first book covers the topics of metaphysics, epistemology, political philosophy and ethics. The book was actually the capstone project for my master’s degree. I wanted to complete the course by doing a second semester that covered logic, Eastern philosophy, existentialism and philosophy of science. So I wrote the second textbook just for fun. Both were written over the summer. I wrote about four to six hours a day.
Did the publishing company do a lot of editing?
Kasmarek: They gave me a lot of professional freedom. And the other thing that comes out of this curriculum is that it’s a values laden curriculum. In other words, we’re not telling kids what to think, but they need to be thinking about their behavior and the behavior of others. This is important, especially at this age. At a high school age, these are important issues. And the kids, they want to talk about what is right and wrong and why. So we have had some fun discussions. That’s been a real positive experience. You know, it’s like anything in education, it’s such a gray area - you’re not quite sure what exactly they’re getting all the time. And even if they’re able to put it up on some objective test. I don’t know if that really explains what they’re truly learning, and what the experience meant to them.
What do you like about teaching philosophy?
Kasmarek: In order to be an effective educator, you have to really be able to relate to the kids, and they have to be able to relate to what you’re doing. You know, it’s not enough to just give them the information; they need to be able to process and say that this is meaningful to me. The main reason I enjoy teaching philosophy is the discussions. With philosophy - you can just go anywhere, that’s the beauty of it. Some teachers might say, “ I’m not real comfortable with this content because I’m just not sure where the conversation is going all the time.” But, I mean, if the students are thinking and coming up with good arguments, anything goes. And it encourages them to be open-minded and respectful of others’ opinions. You know, the ground rules are set early - when people have the floor, we listen to their ideas, and we are respectful, and we don’t make fun of anyone. Again, I go back to Mill’s rules of open-mindedness—you might learn more about your ideas by listening to someone else’s ideas.
Has anyone ever accused you of corrupting the youth?
Kasmarek: Hey, I am no Socrates but…there is that misconception that philosophy supports radicalism, anarchy and such. And sometimes the discussions do have a religious nature, especially when you get into metaphysics or epistemology. As an educator, I don’t feel I’m telling kids what to think - and they need to express ideas. But philosophy doesn’t make anybody a radical; it just makes them a good thinker. To question things isn’t always bad. Say I go to a store and the clerk overcharges me, am I going to sit back and not ask a question? You have to be able to step up to the plate and save yourself. So, I mean, philosophy isn’t a hotbed of radicalism, we’re just helping people think and ask questions.
Where does a philosophy curriculum fit into standardized testing and “No Child Left Behind?”
Kasmarek: One of the biggest challenges in education right now is the movement to standardized testing. When you start talking about President Bush’s No Child Left Behind and school assessment, it is all based on students’ test taking skills. Now on the one hand, you might say well there’s no room for anything philosophical because we have to teach them these facts or this. But on the other hand, if you’re going to teach kids how to be thinkers, and how to analyze information, and how to be better readers…philosophy only enhances their performance on these tests. That’s been my experience, and student performance has reinforced that.
What are some other educational benefits for students?
Kasmarek: I mean, hey, one of the goals of teaching philosophy is to have student be able to walk away and say “ I’ve read Plato. I’ve read Mill. I’ve struggled through Kant like everybody else. And I’m okay - I’m a better person for it.” And you know, maybe they can do some name-dropping while they’re having a cappuccino—I don’t know. I mean, it certainly doesn’t hurt them to be exposed to the ideas of the greatest thinkers in the history of humankind. And to challenge them with those levels of reading is only going to enhance their ability to handle the easier reading materials. I tell them that. For example, we read Spinoza. And it is difficult, but we get through it, and we all say “‘Geez’ that was interesting. At the end of the semester I end the course by having the students pick a “philosopher of the year.” It’s kind of funny because inevitably someone will put down Spinoza and say, “Hey, I didn’t understand everything, but I have a lot of respect for a guy who can write an entire book as a geometric proof.” Again, I am amazed at what they pick up from class.
Who would be your “Philosopher of the Year?”
Kasmarek: I really like Plato. Just because he’s challenging, he’s provocative, and he probably best defines abstract thinking. The kids don’t always like him, and we start every unit with some Plato, but I think it’s a good base.
Talk about teachphilosophy.com?
Kasmarek: I guess that’s a little bit of a corporate sell out on my part. I don’t want this passion for philosophy to be like a road flare, that’s burning really bright, but for a short period of time. I would really like for this to be the eternal flame, for teachers to recognize how easy it is to integrate philosophy into what they already do - and how helpful it is for all involved. Philosophy has helped me to become a better teacher and a better person because I’m more reflective. Part of the problem is that philosophy has a severe image problem. Since people can’t easily define it, they are afraid of it. But the fact is, we are philosophers every day. Every time we make a decision, every time try to problem solve—we use philosophy. We don’t necessarily identify what area of philosophy being used, but we are still being philosophical. So the website was created for other teachers to give them some ideas, based on what’s in my book. And if a teacher might find something they could use, great.
What is “Doceo Ergo Sum?” How is it significant to you?
Kasmarek: Translated it means, “I Teach, Therefore I Am.” It is an obvious spin-off of Descartes’ Cogito. But like any philosophical statement, I wanted to leave it open for interpretation. I think most educators believe in what they’re doing, and are always looking for ways to improve themselves and their lesson presentation. And I take pride in the fact that I am a teacher and a coach. Most communities respect their teachers, and I don’t know if we, as a society, respect educators as much. And I don’t want to get into the poor us syndrom but teaching is an identity. I am humbled by the responsibility of being charged with helping kids learn, helping future generations, and helping America become stronger by creating better citizens.